Bertuzzi pleads not guilty

[Mickey Martini]

Atl said:

www.skepticalworld.com/sports0001.htm

There's the clip of the attack.

I was wrong. Bertuzzi didn't tackle Moore. He grabbed both hands on Moore's jersey and drove him to the ice. They were not falling. Bertuzzi would have killed the guy if the other players weren't so close to him. Then, Bertuzzi was about to take another swing at him before the Colorado players intervened.

Great site too See that's what pisses me off. Bertuzzi is a decent human being off the ice who made a terrible mistake. He does have some anger issues on ice, but this man loves his kids and is great when he visits sick children in the hospital. I fucking hate it when the spineless, gutless media do this crap. It takes such big men to propagate this shit behind a typewriter. They're probaly all 200 pound overweight and never had been laid in their life.

Dislike Bertuzzi, but don't forget someone was hurt pretty bad from this (Though not to the extent the media has been claiming) Stop exaggerating a situation that doesn't need to.

Anyways, from that angle it actually looks like Bert trips over his stick after he punches Moore. He grabbed Moore's jersey with both hands, yes. He sucker punched him from behind, yes. We can all agree on that. The rest is really from each persons point of view. Bottom line is his actions cause the result. I do not agree with the extreme views from the media and some fans, but I realize Bert crossed the line. Big time. And he is now paying the price. Really not much more I can say.

[Atl]

CG said:

That is ONE video of the incident and a bad one at that!
The ones I had (gone in a computer crash but will try to find it again) are different camera angles from the other side of the ice which shows a much clearer view of what happened. I've watched the videos frame by frame and believe me you get a much different interpretation of the sequence of events than this 15 second long, poor quality, travesty of a video provides!

It's a pretty good view, if you ask me. It's close up, and it shows the attack from a side angle, which is best for viewing this. There's no one in-between the camera and the attack.

How is this not assault with bodily harm?

[CG]

What I'm saying is that the other videos I had are from the opposite side of the ice and one was from the opposite end of the ice, showing different angles! They were much clearer (and lighter!) and I'm sure they will be used in court to make the same point I am making here!

I have never said that Bert didn't commit assault - I have said that he is, and will be, taking responsibility for his actions of that night but it's not as simply cut and dried as you would like to make it out to be!

[Mickey Martini]

Exactly....The minute the incident happened the media jumped on the hate Bertuzzi bandwagon. You think they'll show anything but the worst angle possible. I'm shocked more media people have'nt tried to edit Bertuzzi's apology to make it seem like it was all Moore's fault.

(And sorry CG, I hit edit instead of quote.....Damn moding isn't easy)

[Atl]

Mickey said:

Great site too See that's what pisses me off. Bertuzzi is a decent human being off the ice who made a terrible mistake. He does have some anger issues on ice, but this man loves his kids and is great when he visits sick children in the hospital. I fucking hate it when the spineless, gutless media do this crap. It takes such big men to propagate this shit behind a typewriter. They're probaly all 200 pound overweight and never had been laid in their life.

Dislike Bertuzzi, but don't forget someone was hurt pretty bad from this (Though not to the extent the media has been claiming) Stop exaggerating a situation that doesn't need to.

Anyways, from that angle it actually looks like Bert trips over his stick after he punches Moore. He grabbed Moore's jersey with both hands, yes. He sucker punched him from behind, yes. We can all agree on that. The rest is really from each persons point of view. Bottom line is his actions cause the result. I do not agree with the extreme views from the media and some fans, but I realize Bert crossed the line. Big time. And he is now paying the price. Really not much more I can say.

All I wanted you to see was the clip itself, not the commentary on the left. I can make my own conclusions.

It doesn't matter that he visits hospitals or he loves his kids. He had a mindset about attacking Moore as he was skating (almost full-speed, too, as they glided along the ice from the blue line to the red line) behind him. He didn't fall, he didn't trip on his stick (he had past his stick by the time he punched Moore), and he didn't forget how to skate. He purposely drove him to the ice, with Bertuzzi landing on top, to cause bodily harm.

Again, how is this not Assault with Bodily Harm? I don't see how you can continue the arguement unless you're a big fan of his.

[Mickey Martini]

I was going off in more than one direction in that post. I'll try to stick with the subject at hand. In a game that ENCOURAGES violence, you can't compare it to day to day life. Assault walking down the street and getting punched while playing hockey are two diffrent things. If we all consulted that walking along the street means we might get the crap kick out of us, than we could never have laws or take people to court.

I've said Bertuzzi's actions were extreme and appalling, and I'd never condone them for one second. That's unacceptable. But it did happen in a very violent game. The N.H.L. have taken the proper measures against him, and he was handed a suitable punishment. What happens in the N.H.L. and outside the N.H.L. are two diffrent things.

[CG]

As a football player Atl I'm sure you understand physics and if I can't explain to you how they apply in this case, there's really no point in prolonging the discussion, is there? There is a camera angle that appears to show Bert stepping on his stick and if you want to believe that Bert deliberately drove Moore into the ice that's your perogative. The evidence will prove otherwise!
I, and a slew of others, believe differently with a ton of time invested in learning all we could about the dynamics (the physical and mental ones) that went into this whole unfortunate situation!

[Atl]

CG said:

As a football player Atl I'm sure you understand physics and if I can't explain to you how they apply in this case, there's really no point in prolonging the discussion, is there? There is a camera angle that appears to show Bert stepping on his stick and if you want to believe that Bert deliberately drove Moore into the ice that's your perogative. The evidence will prove otherwise!
I, and a slew of others, believe differently with a ton of time invested in learning all we could about the dynamics (the physical and mental ones) that went into this whole unfortunate situation!

The evidence will prove otherwise? Like how?

Bertuzzi wasn't trying to provoke Moore into a fight earlier in the game?
Bertuzzi didn't skate full-power behind Moore and sucker-punch him?
Bertuzzi didn't knock Moore unconscious?
Bertuzzi didn't have both his hands on Moore's jersey?
Bertuzzi didn't drive Moore to the ice?
Bertuzzi didn't try to punch Moore once they were on the ice?
Bertuzzi wasn't trying to hurt Moore?
Bertuzzi's attack didn't lead to the melee?

If you can answer "yes" to one of those questions, you are truly blinded by your fanship to Bertuzzi and the Canucks.

As I said before, you have to be looking at this from a legal standpoint. Throw your loyalties to the team aside.

I, personally, would rather this not be in court, since Bertuzzi will receive stiff punishment from not only the league, but he'll be wearing a target every time he plays the Avalanche and/or friends of Steve Moore. But since this is in court, it has to be seen as one person attacking another, not a player on my favorite team just playing the game against a heated rival.

[CG]

That bloody avatar of yours keeps distracting me Atl! - I did answer yes to one of your questions so I guess that means I have no objectivity in my arguments?

I've tried very hard to stand outside my Canucks loyalties and yes, even my Bert loyalties, in making my arguments. I guess being the 'Bertuzzi Babe' has denied me much credibility in the matter!!